A Thread on CF...
Was sent to bash Wayne Morgan, and the same group jumped on and spewed their opinions on what a worthless human being Wayne is.
I would never say that Wayne was a great coach, by any stretch of the imagination. But I find it funny that the biggest Greg McDermott, who hasn't won anything of note, supporters are the ones bashing away.
People seem to forget that NOBODY wanted the Iowa State coaching job when Wayne took over. We had been turned down by Jeff Lebo (who is struggling at Auburn), AND the guy at Wyoming, who has since been fired.
All Wayne did was get to an NIT Final Four, and the second round of the NCAA's. His last team had no experience in post, and so Stinson, and Blaylock had to try to do everything by themselves. Of course the Mac people march out what talented teams those were, as anyone can tell by all of the lottery picks, oh wait,
The thing that I find the most humorous is that we have a coach now that has NEVER won an NCAA game (he has won just a couple D 2 tourney games whoo hoo), and lost to the bad Morgan team with his best team. Add the fact that apparently NOBODY wants to play for him, once a better offer comes along, and you have a program in the condition that this one is in now. Plus the one win he had against Iowa State involved an unconscious performance from behind the arc.
Noone, let alone me, thinks that Wayne Morgan was the long term answer for the Iowa State program. But for any of the blindly loyal Dan McCarney type love that McDermott is getting, he has proved NOTHING.
As someone who remembers Lynne Nance, and that nightmare, as I sit and I watch Iowa State basketball die, it hurts a lot. Johnny, Tim, and Larry for two years made this program relevant, now we get ONE ESPN game. Good job Greg!
I am pretty sure that Jamie Pollard has a list of guys that may be the next one in. The problem is that the program may never again reach a level that we lead ESPN, like we did when WAYNE'S team went to Lawrence, and beat the number two team in the nation on their floor. Hell, I would just be happy to see Greg win ONE game that he isn't supposed to. I won't hold my breath.
This FanPost does not necessarily represent the opinions of CloneChronicles or SBnation.
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Well...
you have echoed a lot of my concerns with McDermott. I’m straining to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
by CrossCyed on Aug 14, 2008 1:55 PM CDT 0 recs
Are you serious?
There are blind Gmac lovers, then there are blind Gmac haters. You fall in the latter category.
by cyismydog on Aug 14, 2008 5:11 PM CDT 0 recs
What it really boils down to at some point
is results. I know he’s had an adjustment period, but that can only last so long. He has no more mulligans on his recruiting, and getting a one year guy as your only recruit for ’09 is somewhere between mild and medium disappointment.
by CrossCyed on
Aug 14, 2008 8:02 PM CDT
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A question...
Knowing that you spend much time scouring the internet for recruiting information, I was wondering how far down the list these coaches have had to go to sign this latest hidden gem? I mean all I hear about from you is all of these kids that we are in on, because of this great job of recruiting, and then the next thing I hear is they commit somewhere else. It should be fairly obvious that this staff is in desperation mode.
by CY N Spurs fan on
Aug 15, 2008 12:53 AM CDT
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The frustrating thing
is that the staff does tend to be on guys before they blow up, but, for whatever reason, cannot seal the deal.
by CrossCyed on
Aug 15, 2008 11:54 AM CDT
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Once we missed on Reese...
Brad told ISU about Marquis, and he and Jemal were at the top of their ’09 recruiting.
by cyismydog on
Aug 15, 2008 5:41 PM CDT
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But...
You listed a bunch of other names (Thames. Wilcox, Williams, etc) in the recruiting blog you did for this very site, and who do we sign? None of them, so we missed on our first choices, yet AGAIN. Add that to all of the bigs that chose other schools, and how many of our top targets are we getting. Are you saying that at the beginning of 2008 Greg and the boys said wow, I only want Hamilton, and Pomlee (who they weren’t even recruiting hard at the time) screw Zeller? Because I don’t think that is true.
I don’t care if Greg is a better coach than Red Auerbach (maybe before your time so google him), if he can’t get better talent, then we will become completely forgotten, not just the mostly forgotten that we are now.
by CY N Spurs fan on
Aug 15, 2008 10:26 PM CDT
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Another thing, Cy
Noone wants to see Greg McDermott succeed more than I do, and I was on the blindly obedient bandwagon. The problem that I had was/is that he has such a poor feel for the game. I used to go to the dome, and watch Altman, Lowery. Jim Les, and Barry Hinson outcoach Greg. He could win some of those games because he had more talent, but his teams, except for the first NCAA team, all folded down the stretch (his last year they went from 19-2 to 23-10), and they lost baffling games. Sometimes when you are better, you shouldn’t worry about adjusting to the other team, make them adjust to you.
That is part of the problem, he was told over and over again how smart he was, and thought that his brilliance was good for wins. Any minutes that Petey took from Diante this year for the sake of 14 instead of 12 wins, demonstrates a true lack of understanding. That is the main problem, it’s OK to be bad, but try to grow instead he held Diante’s progress up for the sake of trying to look like a genius.
I know you might have missed it with all of the upsets we pulled, and how incredibly competitive we were even while holding back the future of the program.
by CY N Spurs fan on Aug 15, 2008 12:56 AM CDT 0 recs
My philosophy for evaluating coaches
I would have much rather seen us take a shot at a really good coach at the low major level than a good coach at the mid major level. I would have rather we had taken a shot at a coach at a place like Winthrop.
What confused me the most was how much we narrowed our search from the start, seemingly only targeting two guys.
by CrossCyed on
Aug 15, 2008 11:57 AM CDT
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Wayne
It bugs me to no end how some people trash Wayne like they do. I don’t even read those threads anymore.
In the depths of the Eustachy schedule people were honestly wondering how ISU basketball could survive. We were looking at half the team transferring and coaches couldn’t run away from that job fast enough. I’ll admit that his third season was a complete disaster but to say that he trashed the program is ignoring the fact that he probably saved it from being much worse.
I’m trying to be as optimistic as I can regarding our current situation but my concerns have pretty much played out so far. We’re going to have to get it going soon or things are only going to get worse.
by Pauli on Aug 15, 2008 11:09 AM CDT 0 recs
right
It isn’t that any of us think that Wayne was Coach K, noone has ever said that, The problem is that he came into a nightmare of a situation. Larry nearly destroyed the basketball program, and had it not been for the job that Wayne did, there may be nothing left for McDermott to overcoach to the point where the players don’t know what to do. Then he can call them out so they transfer.
Wayne kept this thing afloat, and to not credir him for doing that is short sighted and wrong.
by CY N Spurs fan on
Aug 15, 2008 12:04 PM CDT
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blind mac haters?
oh please…where? All he did was state facts. He has never won an NCAA tournament game. Large percentages of his players have left before graduating. He has two losing records. The team was towards the bottom in scoring per game. The team lost games to instate rivals on its home floor.
He is extremely stubborn with in game strategy. He misuses players….should i go on?
Blind hate is just looking at win-loss records and deciding that a coach is either Coach K or terrible. For me to just say that greg mac is a bad coach because his team lost more than it won in his first two years WOULD be that blind hate you talked about.
But i know that I and his other detracters have shown more than enough concrete evidence of his subpar performance. Making us seeing greg mac haters.
And lastly my friend, remember you are an ISU fan and probably an iowa native. Therefore you have a loyalty gene which automatically gives you a rosy outlook on your state and team. I have never seen anything like ISU fans. They are so loyal and find the positives so well that they could defend anyone with an ISU on their chest.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Aug 16, 2008 3:48 PM CDT 0 recs
I understand...
The last coach I had this feeling about was McCarney. And, no matter how many examples of his mediocrity you could list, the only answers that people could come back with are “he’s a nice guy/great representative of ISU,” “It takes time to do things the right (whatever that means) way,” and “He has had some bad luck, but he wasn’t playing so it’s the players fault.”
Do those ring a bell? Why, yes, it was the mantra of the Greg McDermott supporters this past season. And, if you dared to question any facet of what was happening, you were not as good of a fan as the ones that couldn’t bring themselves to even approach candor when discussing the season. This also happened with McCarney, now even the most loyal Dan the man fans are amazed at how much better the level of coaching is under Chizik.
Of course Dan does have a job, one of the idiots on there Travman23 keeps pointing that out in why Morgan was evil is that he hasn’t gotten a job, so that automatically makes Danny better. But he always fails to mention how Danno begged, and pleaded with everyone he knew, and all that he could get is position coaching job.
Now, Wayne may never coach again, but who cares? Iowa State is done with him, so there is no need to continue to bash the guy.
by CY N Spurs fan on
Aug 16, 2008 9:02 PM CDT
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dont even compare mcdermott to mccarney
McCarney is way out of greg’s league. Dan started from a bad situation, and created a decent winner. It is harder to make a football winner than a basketball one. Greg has honestly had a much much much much better starting position than Dan, and has done nothing.
And besides dan actually got the players he recruited to stay longer than 2 semesters. Can you imagine if 85 percent of a football team was turned over every year because the coach kept running people out?
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Aug 18, 2008 11:29 PM CDT 0 recs
We won't get into this conversation,
Since Danny Mac never beat a good team when they were good, and spent the majority of his time looking up obscure statistics to try to confuse people, and doing every media interview he could to try to limit expectations, so he could keep the best job that he will ever have. Suffice to say that Greg has a lot to prove, however, I was pointing out the similarities in the mindsets of the supporters.
by CY N Spurs fan on
Aug 19, 2008 1:13 PM CDT
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limit expectations?
The expectation his last years were to win the north and when he didn’t do that he got fired. He got fired for being good but not getting over the hump.
McDermott is no good….period.
At least Wally Joyner's not on the team....
by tcon125 on Aug 19, 2008 3:38 PM CDT 0 recs
This seems like this argument should occur in a different posting,
I am happy that the reign of Dan McCarney is over, and I am enjoying the efforts of Gene Chizik. The problem is that Iowa State has been a basketball school, with a reasonable amount of consistent success. We are now approaching year three (the big turnaround year in all of Greg’s previous stops), and there is no positive energy around the men’s basketball program at all.
Every other program, except tennis I guess, has something positive occurring that the fans can point to, and find reason to get excited. Men’s basketball, for so long the main program at Iowa State, has NOTHING to make people even think that we might even be decent. Watch the season ticket numbers, or lack thereof, and you will see the prevailing mood surrounding the program.
by CY N Spurs fan on
Aug 19, 2008 7:04 PM CDT
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Hmmm.
I’m confused. You seem to be preaching results and “what have you done for me lately” type evaluation rules on coaches. I love Chizik and think he is the right man for the job at this time, but I can’t stand these people that bash the coach that brought us from the deepest of depths of college football to respectability. Unvelievable.
Anyway, if you are saying Gmac is a schmuck who hasn’t done anything you HAVE to say the same about Chizik. A 3-8 season with a promising finsh yes, but you could say the same thing about the basketball team. If Wesley Johnson wouldn’t have flaked out, we would be excited about the season. Fact of the matter is a guy who does stuff like that (WJ) , I don’t want him on the team. Does Mac deserve some of the blame… yes. But, he has said how many times he is gonna do it the right way and the situation he stepped into was much worse than Morgan’s and he has gotten some horrible luck on the way in my opinion.
Bottom line: McDermott has not done well with W-L but I believe he has the coaching ability to improve that and then reel in the recruits. So if you are juding purely on results he has been a disappointment. Chizik 3-9 first season, losses to UNI, Kent St., Toledo… So far he has been a disappointment. Our recruiting class wasn’t THAT great according to ratings, that doesn’t mean a whole lot to me anyways since we often finish in the conference far above our rankings. I mean, yeah we are pumped and have a lot of high hopes but he has no results. I guess what I’m trying to say is the two coaches are not that much different at this point except Chizik comes from Auburn and Texas and he has next to no head coaching experience, while Greg comes from UNI, Wayne St etc. and has quite a bit of experience… including turning crappy programs into good ones with no history. So I don’t see how you can come down on Greg so hard and put Chizik up on such a pedestal. Many similarities at this point.
by thewizard3 on
Aug 27, 2008 12:23 AM CDT
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re. Hmmmm
Look, I don’t expect many Iowa State fans to truly understand this, but when a FOOTBALL coach has been at a school for TWELVE years, and leaves a four year rebuild behind, no mater how nice of a guy he may have been, he was completely ineffective at the job he was hired to do. Then add in all of the baffling coaching decisions which snatched defeat from the jaws of victory so many damn times, and you see why after begging the world for a head coaching job, he is now a position coach. Also, revisionist history in the spin that allowed a coach who, after his miracle turnaround was 34-38, was all done to try to keep the ONLY head coaching job in a BCS conference that he will ever have.
Add in that he preyed upon the mental weakness, and second class citizen of the fanbase and focused so hard on beating Iowa, instead of winning conference games…..Bad situation, glad that he is gone, Of course he took every opportunity to bemoan the facilities, and budget, when he had more than anyone before him, and his performance was responsible for the budget inequalities due to losing 1-3 games every year that he could have won. BAD SITUATION
As far as McDermott, his decisions have been at the root of his problems. And, as a UNI alum, and a fan who attended many games, I wonder where you get the idea that he is a great coach. Look at this past year, Ben jacobsen, who I think is mediocre at best, coach his mentor under the table, which goes along with when I used to watch Altman, Lowery, Les, Hinson, consistently outcoach McDermott, so I am wondering where you get this idea? Looking at the schedule, they will win games this year, but unless something amazing happens, there won’t be any postseason, you are seeing Iowa State basketball die under this regime, and that makes those of us who remember Hilton Magic very sad.
Chizik, again remember he was left a 3-4 year rebuild. But you saw fundementals, you know blocking and tackling. which were such a glaring weakness from the previous regime, and you saw hopeful football.
That is the biggest difference between Gene, and Greg, and why I am fairly certain that Iowa State is either going to become a football school, or when conference realignments come along again, we will be in the Mountain West, or Confernce USA, and all of the resources will have to be thrown at basketball then, and I have a feeling that Greg McDermott won’t be around for it.
by CY N Spurs fan on
Aug 28, 2008 1:11 AM CDT
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