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Rivals, Hatred, and Stereotypes: Mailbag!

A couple of weeks ago, I received an unsolicited e-mail from a young man named Tyler Hissey. It goes as follows:

My name is Tyler Hissey. I'm doing some research on sports taunting and the kind of things that make a specific fanbase tick.

As the Big 12 bloggers of SB Nation, I would greatly appreciate if you could answer the following questions about the program you cover and its fan base.

Thanks so much,

Tyler

So, after seeing that Corn Nation broke the silence and respond to the questions,  I've decided to follow suit in my pursuit to help Tyler out!

What team do you cover for SB Nation?

WTF? Dude, come on man. You got my e-mail address from CloneChronicles. You acknowledged that I was a Big 12 blogger. My screen name is mplscyclone. Just follow the clues Tyler. I'm not going to spell it out for you, geez.

(See the rest of the answers on the next page)

Star-divide

Who do you consider to be your team's biggest rivalry?

The entire world, universe, and God. Gene Chizik too... 

If you go around campus in early September, however, you may hear about a little known school called the University of Iowa. See, they have this mascot called Herky that wears a mascot head on the top, but  an otherwise human outfit on the bottom! He's a bird head with a human body! Those people in Iowa City can't get ANYTHING right.

University-of-iowa-replay-peels-iowa-herky-peel-iowa-peel-x-00001lg_medium

(You call THAT a mascot??)

Anyhow, if you talk to your typical Hawkeye fan, they will say it's not a rivalry. They'll say something like "See 'dem Hawks ova thera, dey be winnin' more than ya'll. Dey be done put da wippin's on yous 'Clones I mean CLOWNS ha ha ha!" So, at first it's hard to figure out what they're actually saying. Then you realize what they are trying to get at is how it's not really a rivalry because there needs to be some back and forth.

They will go on and talk about the time period where the Hawks beat the Cyclones 15 years in a row, from 1983 to 1997. What they will reglect is that over the past 11 years, it's been 7-4 in favor of the Cyclones. See, illogical people will do that. They'll point to an irrelevant time period to try to back up something that applies now.

You see, they've had some good teams where if they had just beat ISU, they would've gone farther. They cannot admit that, because people here in Iowa believe they are an elite team (funniest thing ever). In order to be elite, they need to crush "little brother" ISU. It's obvious the Big 10 is so bad that one of the worst teams in the Big 12 can beat a top tier Big 10 team, but they cannot admit it.  I believe it's a character flaw that develops after doing too much meth, but I don't know for sure. I've only lived in Iowa for 7 years.

What teams and specific players do  casual or die-hard fans of your team hate most?

Us fans hate all the teams, but our definition of hate is more of a dislike. ISU fans are typically willing to tip their hat to the other team. In my opinion, the hate we may have for other teams is typically rooted in their fans and those in the Big 12 North.

Here's a quick breakdown Tyler:

  • Nebraska: ISU fans typically can't stand Nebraska fans. We want to beat Nebraska every year, not just because of their team and the whole conference thing,  but because we want to shut up those that roots for them. At home, they think they are all that, but on the road they're some wusses. See, they will go to the game and at first start being like "GO BIG RED, GO BIG RED, GO BIG RED". Typically it's the only thing they will say. You can be like "How was the drive up here?" and they will say "GO BIG RED".  "Did you come in last night or this morning?" 'GO BIG RED". By the end of the 1st quarter, it's mad annoying, but it works out. If the game is somewhat close, they get REAL SILENT and sit on their hands. Then if they win, they will wait until about 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter and then try to rub it in. If they are behind in the 4th quarter, however, they bail. Even with all of the crap the fans give us, we're still nice as hell to them. My note to them, is to come up with a cheer that's less annoying. Also, learn to talk to people. I know it gets hard and long husking in the fields all day, but come on.
  • Colorado: If you went in a trip to Boulder, you would see that the fans believe that the Rocky Mountains were God's gift to the University of Colorado. See, they love to point out the scenary behind the stadium. The problem is that we don't really care. It's not like you can take a Rocky Mountain seed, put it in the ground in Iowa, add some water, and Boom! Rocky Mountain backdrop behind Jack Trice Stadium. If you get past that, it's all good though. They're usually too stoned and really know what's going on.
  • Missouri: They have some pretty intense fans. You see, we don't need to hate Missouri too much, because their OWN fans will ride their team worse than us.  I've only been to one basketball game at Missouri. At that game, their fans booed their own team off the court. How can you possibly hate a team whose fans hate the team more than we do?
  • Kansas: Basketball-wise they are just annoying. Yeah you've had some good teams, but your  "Rock Chalk Jayhawk" chant sounds like a combination of "Dona Nobis Pacem" and a dog dying in the corner of the room. Football-wise they are laughable. They try to act like these past couple of years have always happened there. There's no hate here, just annoyance
  • K-State: These are fans that just believe that there is something in the water in Manhattan that would lead to success for the rest of eternity. If you talked to them, you'd figure they were an elite program. They had a run, no doubt, and no one will take that away from them. But over the last several years, they've had some pretty crap teams and mediocre teams. ISU fans can't talk, but at the same time we aren't waltzing around acting like we're better than you either.

If you wanted to taunt players from your conference, who would be the biggest targets?

Tyler, we like to go after the coaches. Stuff like Mangino hitting the buffet too hard, Bill Synder is snaggle-tooth, etc. You see, it's easier to single them out, and there's a better chance they'll hear us. In basketball, it's funny to see Doc Sadler or Frank Martin flip out.

We typically save the taunting for the coaches of the teams, as they get paid to take the flack, and often times they will be around longer. A lot of us non-students realize the players are 18-22 year old kids and typically lay off, unless they do something unsportsmanlike.

Only players I can remember ISU fans taunting are basketball players. Guys like Maric from Nebraska, Pierre Pierce from Iowa, but other than Pierce most of the booing is from the fan section. You get more taunting often times in basketball due to pauses like free throw shooting, where the students are sitting under the basket, and the guy is out there all on their own.

What kind of taunts would sting the casual fan of your team the most—going after the make-up of the fan base, individual players, coach, school, or the state?

I would say going after the fan base, followed by individual players. I would say all of the Big 12 schools tend to be in states that get some flack for the state they are in, so you don't hear too much of "Iowa sucks, Nebraska is awesome" but I'm sure it sometimes happens.

 In 100 words or less, best describe your team's fan base

The most loyal fans in the Nation. If ISU had a fanbase like most teams in the Nation, we'd have attendance similar to Baylor's. Last year in football, we won 2 games. The last game of the year was something like 20 degrees, and the place was almost sold out. How many schools are going to have that kind of turnout in a bad year, in super cold weather?

In basketball, we've been pretty bad the last several years, but we typically rank in the top 25 in the nation for attendance. For whatever reason, ISU fans are enternally optomistic and will always believe better days are ahead.

What are the common stereotypes associated with your team's fan base and the school in general? In what ways are they true/false?

There aren't really a lot of sterotypes. If you survey fans in other conferences, they don't typically have a ton bad to say about Iowa State. We typically just get crap for not being good, and in the past few years, we haven't. I'd say that Ames is one of the best places at least in the Big 12 North to tailgate. We may not be the greatest at football, but we know how to have a good time.

Look at this quote from Corn Nation:

Nebraskans are generally football geeks. We tend to be more knowledgeable about the actual game of football than most other fans, which is why you don't see massive amounts of tailgating at Husker games. We tend to taunt others less than they taunt us, although that tends to even out if we happen to be drinking. Or in my case, breathing.

WTF is this? You are too smart to tailgate? Serious? You live in a state where there is NOTHING going on. You have a bunch of fields and shit, tailgate it up! Are you sure you don't tailgate, because the people there are just boring and lame?

We live in a state where there are 2 more things going on than Nebraska, and we live it up! Of course you do need some heavy drinking to get through all of the sorrows and dissapointments we've endured.

Tyler, do you REALLY wonder why ISU fans can't stand Nebraska fans now??

Cyclone fans, feel free to comment below. Help set me straight and get Tyler the answers that he needs!

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Good job

I would say Iowa is easily on top of the hate list and Nebraska is 2nd. After that it’s tough to get too riled up about anybody. We don’t really have a true two-way rivalry with anyone in the conference. There was some bad blood with Colorado basketball when the Harrison brothers were there but it left with them. There was definitely a lot of taunting those guys because they would always let it get in their head and try to jaw with the crowd.

The one type of player that will usually get taunted from the crowd is the dirty (or scrappy depending on your point of view) guy that’s always mixing it up with somebody. I would guess that’s true everywhere.

Most of the stereotypes about us come from Iowa fans. We’re obsessed with them, the typical ag school jokes, etc. In some cases the “obsession” line rings true but it’s a rivalry so that type of stuff will happen. The easiest way to get under our skin is to start with the “little brother” crap.

by Pauli on Jul 11, 2009 3:34 PM CDT reply actions  

Haha

I would say those are all pretty solid assessments. However, I think the reason for Nebraska not tailgating is the fact that they have a DRY CAMPUS, not that they’re smarter. Although I do have to say, their fans are probably the most respectful ones I’ve seen. Not at all like Iowa where you get obscenities and beer thrown at you.

Just a quick addition, Michael Beasley was probably the most sought after player from an opposing team I’ve seen. Adam Haluska got booed every time he touched the ball for obvious reasons, but the students and general admission people were all over Beasley when K-State came to Hilton.

Rumor has it Alex Brown keeps Chris Simms' right index finger in his back pocket for good luck.

by HanelucaTC on Jul 12, 2009 3:24 PM CDT reply actions  

All over Beasley?

Why, because he was great?

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on Jul 13, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well

First, probably because everyone knew he was good. But also, the worst of Beasley showed when we played KSU at home. Beasley showed how much of a bad attitude he had, and his ability to check out of games when the going gets tough. He also argued with the officials, which the home crowd is ALWAYS going to boo.

by Mark Kieffer on Jul 13, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Come on

You honestly don’t believe that Beasley has a bad attitude? It’s been his #1 flaw since high school, and it’s hurting him in the NBA as well. Wade wants Beasley out of Miami….

by Mark Kieffer on Jul 14, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I love this Beasley defense

Even though he was a one-and-done and probably could have cared less where he spent his one year of school. He probably picked K-State because Huggins was going to pay him.

Rumor has it Alex Brown keeps Chris Simms' right index finger in his back pocket for good luck.

by HanelucaTC on Jul 14, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I'm sure Tim Floyd NEVER cheated in Ames...

…c’mon, bring something better than that.

As far as Beasley’s attitude, if you consider being a little immature and a practical joker a bad attitude, so be it. Like Frank Martin said, if all our youths had the attitude issues Michael Beasley does, we might have a bunch of signatures on the bathroom wall, but we wouldn’t have kids getting shot in schools. He’s not a troublemaker, not a team cancer, he’s just a little immature and, in case you’d forgotten, he’s 19 (or maybe 20 now). I’m sure you were all grown up and had the world figured out at 19, didn’t you? And if he would have worn ISU’s colors, you’d have loved the guy, so let’s not go pretending that you’re making some holier than thou stand about this.

Regarding the Wade saga, yeah, he wants him gone because it’s going to take him another year or two to get his defense up to par in the NBA, and Wade knows that if he doesn’t win a title next year, his window is probably going to close fast. So he wants someone that he thinks can help him win right now. I’ve noticed Pat Riley is standing behind Beasley. Doubt he’d be doing that if he had a chronic bad attitude.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on Jul 15, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

And I'm sure

You guys cheat too. Some of the recruiting has been shady; look at the salary of your assistant coach. At this point who really cares? Tim Floyd left 10 years ago.

Beasley displayed a lackidasical attitude on the court, like it or not… At least when he was in Ames. He got called for some fouls and argued with the refs. The crowd booed, and Beasley got more frustrated. When the fans realize you get can to a player, they are going to be all over them.

If KSU that year had more of a team attitude, you guys would’ve been a lot better. Having Beasely and Walker should’ve taken you guys a lot farther. You had better talent than what was put out on the court.

It was clear that Beasley’s frustration can take himself out of a game. In Ames, he had his worst game of conference play. He got 15 points on 41% shooting, had 9 rebounds and had 4 turnovers. Again, it’s a nice game for most guys, but for him it was a bad game.

Lastly, I don’t defend players just because they are ISU; If they have a bad attitude, or were shady, I’ll point it out. I just won’t critcize them too much while they are still enrolled here, because they have the opportunity to turn things around while here. People didn’t like Tinsley ‘s attitude at ISU, and I don’t find many who say he was their favorite, despite being one of the best players in the nation.

Why are you getting so offended anyways? KSU hasn’t been a basketball school in a long while. Honestly, the only time I’ve ever seen a noticeable amount of Wildcat fans at Hilton in Ames was 2 years ago. All of a sudden, you guys are elite and all that now? It fits right in with what I said about KSU fans in my post…

by Mark Kieffer on Jul 15, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously...

…go get a book about NCAA basketball and read it. I’m not going to say we’re an elite basketball team right now, because we’re not. We’re getting better, but we’re not there yet.

I’m not going to look up Iowa State’s numbers, because I know they don’t compete with ours and I frankly don’t care that much, but in our basketball history, we have 19 conference championships, 16 Sweet 16s, eight Elite 8s, four Final 4s, played in two national title games, and own a 131-76 all-time record against Iowa State. I’m responding because you make completely uninformed statements about K-State and it’s so much fun to prove you wrong.

My point about the cheating was that, based on the facts we have, I have as much right to claim that Tim Floyd cheated at Iowa State as you do to claim that Bob Huggins/Frank Martin/Dalonte Hill cheat(ed) at K-State. In other words, absolutely zero basis, other than “it’s not the team I cheer for and they’re actually doing better, so they must be cheating!” The blog Rush the Court did an analysis of whether Hill’s salary was worth it to us, and came to the conclusion that between the increased TV exposure and revenue, increased merchandise sales, and NCAA tournament appearance units, we were actually getting a bargain in Hill. Sorry if you think it’s cheating, but in the new age of one-and-done players, it makes sense to pay a ton of money to a guy with connections to elite talent. I’ll certainly take that ‘appearance of impropriety’ over Gregg McDermott’s revolving door in Ames.

Finally, for your “angry and bitter” comments, no doubt there’s a lot of frustration among K-Staters about the way football has gone the last five years, and over the fact that we made a colossal error in hiring Ron Prince. I guess I’ll take being “angry and bitter” over looking at my school’s trophy case and seeing…nothing.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on Jul 16, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

Your final fours were in 1948, 1951, 1958, and 1964. Your National Championship runner up was 1951… A majority of those years were before even my parents were born. Tell me, how was that 1958 championship game? You wouldn’t know unless you read a book about it.

Last time you made the Elite Eight was 1988

Last time you won a conference was in 1980. You’ve made the NCAA tournament once this decade.

ISU made the Elite Eight in 2000. We won the Big 12 in 2000 and 2001. We’ve made the NCAA tournament 3 times more than you this decade.

This is 2009, and we’re in the Big 12. I personally don’t care how a program was when they were in the Valley or Big 8, because it’s irrelevant today. It can be fun to talk about, but it has no bearing on future success. It’s not like either of us lived the K-State glory years in basketball.

I can bust out some fun numbers too. In football, ISU is 49-39-4 against K-State all time, but who really cares? All I care about is that we lost to K-State last year, and this year I hope we can win.

Why are we arguing again? Are you really taking this much offense? ISU is the school that gets ripped the most hands down, and you’re angry?

by Mark Kieffer on Jul 16, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

The overriding point...

…of this entire argument boils down to this. In basketball, currently and historically, we are a better program than Iowa State. You made the comment above that you couldn’t believe I was “taking offense” to your comments about our basketball program because you didn’t think K-Staters cared about basketball. K-Staters most decidedly do care about basketball, and there’s a reason why. Before we made three straight atrocious coaching hires, we were considered one of the better programs in the nation. As I said, in Big 12 success, you have us, but what has it been, six years since you were relevant in the Big 12? It’s not like you’ve been steadily finishing among the top four teams in the conference the last three years.

Here’s what I’m getting at:

ISU fans can’t talk, but at the same time we aren’t waltzing around acting like we’re better than you either.

My overall point is that, if I were to go to an Oklahoma board, or a Missouri board, or a Texas Tech board, and see them ripping on K-State for not being very good, I’d have to swallow my pride because they have every argument over me. But to hear an Iowa State fan ripping on K-State for not being good is the essence, the very epitome, of the pot calling the kettle black. Sorry if we point out the fact that, currently and historically, we are better than you in basketball. Sorry if we point out the fact that you lost to a lame-duck, Ron Prince-coached team last year in football, and that Bill Snyder completely owned your program for 15 years. The fact that you bring up the historical football record is funny, because we’re way closer to y’all than we are any other team in America in overall record. The fact that ISU is only 10 games ahead of K-State historically really speaks to how freaking bad Iowa State is historically.

So in the end, and this really is the end, as I have nowhere to go now but to repeat myself, I’m not “taking offense” to what you said. I enjoy discussions and arguments and through your comments about K-State, you gave me a chance to get into a discussion on the topic. Actually, I thank you. See you in Kansas City.

We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats

by TB on Jul 17, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ok

I’m sure Floyd cheated sometimes but like mpls said, it was like 10 years ago. So who cares? Iowa State has has since taken care of any disciplinary issues in a pretty swift manner. Just look at Mike Taylor, Jason Berryman, etc. That’s why we have been so bad lately, no shady activity!

I’m sure I would have loved Beasley in Ames, but I probably wouldn’t be defending him to the death on an Iowa State blog because someone questioned his attitude, that’s all I’m saying. I guess I didn’t know that Beasley was such a big issue with K State fans.

Rumor has it Alex Brown keeps Chris Simms' right index finger in his back pocket for good luck.

by HanelucaTC on Jul 15, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Eh

I guess “all over him” might not have been the best choice of words, they were just trying to get in his head. Because of the season he was having and the fact that it was ISU’s senior night, Hilton was a bumping place for that game. mplscyclone is right, he got frustrated early with some fouls so from there the crowd started getting more vocal at him.

Rumor has it Alex Brown keeps Chris Simms' right index finger in his back pocket for good luck.

by HanelucaTC on Jul 13, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good Job

How about the stereotype that the Iowa game is our entire season… Ignoring the fact that we ran a coach out of town because he couldn’t win a conference game EVEN THOUGH he owned Iowa.

by Heech on Jul 14, 2009 12:37 PM CDT reply actions  

To be fair

Chizik skipped town, we didn’t run him out of town. Pollard was going to give him an extension…

Regarding the stereotype, I guess that’s true. But at the same time, it’s a common argument amongst rivalry fanbases. When I was thinking about our stereotypes, I was thinking about stereotypes that would unique to ISU….

by Mark Kieffer on Jul 14, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

As far as K-State games

We tried to seek out Bill Walker for his “I’ll pee in anything white and cottony” escapades

by CrossCyed on Jul 14, 2009 10:48 PM CDT reply actions  

The winner of my most hated contest is

Texas or Oklahoma. I love it when either one of those loses. To me they are like the Yankees… they can buy anything and anyone they want … so when they fall on their face I love to stomp on it. Games against Iowa are at least interesting.

Your comments were perfect about Beasley. I hated him because you knew he was a rented player. Everyone knew that he was there for one reason and one reason only and that was to go pro. I would love to see him “transcripts.” Do you honestly believe that he went to any of his classes. Oh well, the only good thing that I have to say is that he is gone.

by 907Cy on Jul 16, 2009 11:25 PM CDT reply actions  

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